Facts about China What things should every Indian know about China? Some interesting facts about India-China

Facts about China What things should every Indian know about China?

I would agree with most of this but disagree in that it is necessary to highlight the differences between the two countries in order to truly understand them. If they were very similar, then there would not be conflicts and misunderstandings and differences in their growth models.

A lot of people emphasize the platitude that India and China are similar because of their ancient civilizations, populations, etc. Yet, but the similarities end there and the differences are greater. One can argue that Indian civilization has a lot more in common with Middle Eastern/Islamic civilization and Western civilization. This is not only in terms of culture but in terms of the trajectories and developments of their political systems. If you want to read about this in detail and compare India's history to China I recommend a book called "The Origins of the Political Order" by Fukuyama. Not a perfect book but it does contain insights.

Moving on, I will highlight some of the biggest differences and mistakes on comparing India and China.

1. Indian and Chinese civilizations did have some interaction in the past but it was very indirect and their traditional areas of cultural and political control did not touch or intersect until fairly late in history (19th century), so were hardly neighbors in any sense. They are cut off from each other by the Tibetan Plateau, Southeast Asian jungles, and the Taklamakan desert. These are some of the most inhospitable regions in the world, comparable to the way the Sahara cut sub-Saharan Africa off from the areas to its north. In these areas, small and generally weak states flourished on trade and these were the main conduits between India and China. China only officially acquired its large western areas in the 18th-19th centuries and only incorporated Tibet and Xinjiang for real in the 1950s. There were also some minor hill kingdoms on the Indian side of the Himalayas that prevented the Mughal Empire and others from actually bordering Tibetan. Most of these were annexed into British India (Kumaon for example). Intellectually both countries were distant and on the edges of each other's consciousnesses. There are a couple of exceptions, notably during the Tang Dynasty when a Chinese general tried to intervene in a civil war that followed the death of Harsha.

2. Cultural interaction between India and China has been historically very, very limited. East Asia was cut off for much of its history from the rest of Eurasia by the aforementioned geographical features and it was not until the Mongol period this began to change. East Asia was basically a cultural sphere of its own. On the other hand, India, while isolated, had a lot more interaction with the culture immediate to its west- the Middle East region, especially with Persian and Islamic culture. It is also much easier to invade India through the Hindu Kush than it is through the Himalayas. The main cultural interaction between India and China was indirect: the spread of Buddhism from Gandhara (in today's Pakistan) up through Bamiyan Valley (in today's Afghanistan) to Samarkand and east across the Taklamakan desert (through Khotan, an ancient Buddhist kingdom) into China proper. This happened slowly, so Buddhism in China was Sinified and in any case does not depend heavily on Indian culture. This exchange was also mostly one way and there is little evidence of Chinese culture influencing India. Even when it does, it is indirect: paper spread to Islamic civilization and Muslims brought it to India; the British brought tea to India. It is odd this was the cast but historically, you can say that Indian intellectuals were rather insular and unwilling to adapt foreign practices on their own.

3. Political differences. 

It is somewhat of a myth that India and China has comparable political histories. In fact, India and Europe have more similar political histories. They both share a pattern: periods of temporary unity through imperial conquest with regional and medium sized states in the periods in between. Thus, Europe had some unity under Rome, Charlemagne, Charles V, etc. but was mostly made up of several states. Likewise, India has has some periods of unity under the Mauryans, Guptas, Mughals, but was mostly fragmented into various states, some of which have very strong regional identities. There has not been a long term historical unified polity in South Asia. One can almost say that India was unified by a fluke of history by the British. Of course, this is not to say that there is no basis for India. It shares a common civilization the way European countries share their own commonalities. India is not random, but its political unity is something new and an experiment that is ongoing.

China is unique among world civilizations in that it has managed to keep most of its civilization politically united for long periods of time. This is not true of Indian, Islamic, or European civilization. As a result, China has a long history of political unity that has discouraged regionalism. Adding on to this is China's historically unique pattern of centralization in a strong state with a strong, meritocracy bureaucracy, which has existed for 2000 years. Modern states did not adapt these practices until the 19th century. Therefore, China is a much more homogeneous, centralized, organized state than India What should every Indian know about China?

1. China is thrice the size of India at about 9.6 million sq. km vs. 3.2 million sq. km with only a little more population than ours.
   
2. Historically, the Chinese name for India was Tianzhu - meaning heaven. In return, Indians called them by chin (after their most glorious empire - Qin) that eventually got caught by rest of the world now.
3. Although Indians incessantly talk & compare with China, the Chinese understandably don't compare themselves with India. It is because they want to emulate/compare themselves with Europe/US than a poorer country they have beaten in race since 1978. 
   
4. Just like how we say Namaste (with folded hands), Chinese traditional greeting comprises of bowed head and folded palms.
   

1. Whether it be gold buying, sending students abroad, scouting for resources in Africa/Latin America or wooing foreign investors both India and China compete vigorously to rank in 1 or 2.
   
2. India's largest river - Brahmaputra originates in China (Tibet) and makes a complete 180-degree turn near India-China border to enter India in a spectacular fashion.There are constant rumors in India that China could dynamite the hill in the picture with nuclear weapons to redirect the river.
   

1. Although India and China had very comparable economies through history, China is now 4 times as rich as India. ($7.5 trillion in GDP vs. $1.8 trillion in GDP). The biggest difference came since 1978 when China started its capitalistic reforms.
   

1. Although India and China share 3380 km of land border, there are only 3 open trading posts between the two countries - Shipki La, Lipulkeh and Nathu La.
   

1. 
   (India-China border at Nathu La in eastern India)
   

India and China had remarkably parallel histories.

1. China was first unified in 221 BC under the Qin (chin) dynasty that had a remarkable effect on their culture. India's equivalent occurred around the same time with the Maurya dynasty that India's first Imperial dynasty.
2. China's greatest religious advancements were made in the 6th century BCE with Confucianism and Taoism, at the same time India was creating its philosophical religious movements - Buddhism, Jainism.
3. Both nations hit their lowest points in 19th century during the colonial era. Both nations got liberated within 2 years of each other - Indian in August 1947 and China in October 1949. In their modern incarnation, both nations were first headed by socialistic leaders (Nehru and Mao) who fumbled with their economies.
4. The father of modern China - Sun Yat Sen, was born only 3 years before Mahatma Gandhi - father of modern India.
5. In both the nations, the biggest chunk of the population and historic empires were concentrated in north/east. However, in the modern era the economic forces have shifted towards south
   

Conflicts:

1. India and China had their first and only war in 5000 years of coexistence in October 1962. It was a two week long war, when our border forces clashed in the Himalayas. Although India didn't lose any territory in the resounding defeat (the only military defeat that modern India has faced so far), the war opened India's minds to building a strong military force with nuclear capabilities. . When Kennedy administration thought of using nukes against China. 
   
2. Presently there are two main contentious boundaries that India and China have.China and India both claim the shaded regions. While India controls the region on the right (Arunachal Pradesh), China controls the region on the West that is a pat of Kashmir.
   

1. 
   
   
2. China is mainly divided into provinces (where Han Chinese are predominant) and autonomous regions that have significant non-Han population and have extremely rugged terrain.They also include in their map a few territories owned/claimed by India (in blue shade).
   

1. 
   

India and China have a signficant scope for collaboration as both nations are threatened by global terrorism, piracy and oil imports.

The future of both countries depend on how the dragon and elephant are able to get along with each other.

I would agree with most of this but disagree in that it is necessary to highlight the differences between the two countries in order to truly understand them. If they were very similar, then there would not be conflicts and misunderstandings and differences in their growth models.

A lot of people emphasize the platitude that India and China are similar because of their ancient civilizations, populations, etc. Yet, but the similarities end there and the differences are greater. One can argue that Indian civilization has a lot more in common with Middle Eastern/Islamic civilization and Western civilization. This is not only in terms of culture but in terms of the trajectories and developments of their political systems. If you want to read about this in detail and compare India's history to China I recommend a book called "The Origins of the Political Order" by Fukuyama. Not a perfect book but it does contain insights.

Moving on, I will highlight some of the biggest differences and mistakes on comparing India and China.

1. Indian and Chinese civilizations did have some interaction in the past but it was very indirect and their traditional areas of cultural and political control did not touch or intersect until fairly late in history (19th century), so were hardly neighbors in any sense. They are cut off from each other by the Tibetan Plateau, Southeast Asian jungles, and the Taklamakan desert. These are some of the most inhospitable regions in the world, comparable to the way the Sahara cut sub-Saharan Africa off from the areas to its north. In these areas, small and generally weak states flourished on trade and these were the main conduits between India and China. China only officially acquired its large western areas in the 18th-19th centuries and only incorporated Tibet and Xinjiang for real in the 1950s. There were also some minor hill kingdoms on the Indian side of the Himalayas that prevented the Mughal Empire and others from actually bordering Tibetan. Most of these were annexed into British India (Kumaon for example). Intellectually both countries were distant and on the edges of each other's consciousnesses. There are a couple of exceptions, notably during the Tang Dynasty when a Chinese general tried to intervene in a civil war that followed the death of Harsha.

2. Cultural interaction between India and China has been historically very, very limited. East Asia was cut off for much of its history from the rest of Eurasia by the aforementioned geographical features and it was not until the Mongol period this began to change. East Asia was basically a cultural sphere of its own. On the other hand, India, while isolated, had a lot more interaction with the culture immediate to its west- the Middle East region, especially with Persian and Islamic culture. It is also much easier to invade India through the Hindu Kush than it is through the Himalayas. The main cultural interaction between India and China was indirect: the spread of Buddhism from Gandhara (in today's Pakistan) up through Bamiyan Valley (in today's Afghanistan) to Samarkand and east across the Taklamakan desert (through Khotan, an ancient Buddhist kingdom) into China proper. This happened slowly, so Buddhism in China was Sinified and in any case does not depend heavily on Indian culture. This exchange was also mostly one way and there is little evidence of Chinese culture influencing India. Even when it does, it is indirect: paper spread to Islamic civilization and Muslims brought it to India; the British brought tea to India. It is odd this was the cast but historically, you can say that Indian intellectuals were rather insular and unwilling to adapt foreign practices on their own.

3. Political differences. It is somewhat of a myth that India and China has comparable political histories. In fact, India and Europe have more similar political histories. They both share a pattern: periods of temporary unity through imperial conquest with regional and medium sized states in the periods in between. Thus, Europe had some unity under Rome, Charlemagne, Charles V, etc. but was mostly made up of several states. Likewise, India has has some periods of unity under the Mauryans, Guptas, Mughals, but was mostly fragmented into various states, some of which have very strong regional identities. There has not been a long term historical unified polity in South Asia. One can almost say that India was unified by a fluke of history by the British. Of course, this is not to say that there is no basis for India. It shares a common civilization the way European countries share their own commonalities. India is not random, but its political unity is something new and an experiment that is ongoing.

China is unique among world civilizations in that it has managed to keep most of its civilization politically united for long periods of time. This is not true of Indian, Islamic, or European civilization. As a result, China has a long history of political unity that has discouraged regionalism. Adding on to this is China's historically unique pattern of centralization in a strong state with a strong, meritocracy bureaucracy, which has existed for 2000 years. Modern states did not adapt these practices until the 19th century. Therefore, China is a much more homogeneous, centralized, organized state than India.

You have some good points. But, two things:
Just like India, China was unified only during certain periods. Look at Chinese maps at various points of history. The past area of China was a faction of its present size. The Zhou, Shang and other major dynasties ruled less than a third of eastern China (leave alone the rest) just like how various Indian dynasties ruled the heartland. For a sizable chunk of our history, the region around Ganges were ruled by a single dynasty.

I don't say India and China had lot of cultural interactions. What I'm saying is that although we evolved separately, there are plenty of similarities.

Ancient Civilization

Under Shang:

Zhou

1. China is thrice the size of India at about 9.6 million sq. km vs. 3.2 million sq. km with only a little more population than ours.
   
2. Historically, the Chinese name for India was Tianzhu - meaning heaven. In return, Indians called them by chin (after their most glorious empire - Qin) that eventually got caught by rest of the world now.
3. Although Indians incessantly talk & compare with China, the Chinese understandably don't compare themselves with India. It is because they want to emulate/compare themselves with Europe/US than a poorer country they have beaten in race since 1978. everyone wants to be compared with someone better than them).
   
4. Just like how we say Namaste (with folded hands), Chinese traditional greeting comprises of bowed head and folded palms.
   

1. Whether it be gold buying, sending students abroad, scouting for resources in Africa/Latin America or wooing foreign investors both India and China compete vigorously to rank in 1 or 2.
   
2. India's largest river - Brahmaputra originates in China (Tibet) and makes a complete 180-degree turn near India-China border to enter India in a spectacular fashion.There are constant rumors in India that China could dynamite the hill in the picture with nuclear weapons to redirect the river.
   

1. Although India and China had very comparable economies through history, China is now 4 times as rich as India. ($7.5 trillion in GDP vs. $1.8 trillion in GDP). The biggest difference came since 1978 when China started its capitalistic reforms.
   

1. Although India and China share 3380 km of land border, there are only 3 open trading posts between the two countries - Shipki La, Lipulkeh and Nathu La.
   

1. 
   (India-China border at Nathu La in eastern India)
   

India and China had remarkably parallel histories.

1. China was first unified in 221 BC under the Qin (chin) dynasty that had a remarkable effect on their culture. India's equivalent occurred around the same time with the Maurya dynasty that India's first Imperial dynasty.
2. China's greatest religious advancements were made in the 6th century BCE with Confucianism and Taoism, at the same time India was creating its philosophical religious movements - Buddhism, Jainism.
3. Both nations hit their lowest points in 19th century during the colonial era. Both nations got liberated within 2 years of each other - Indian in August 1947 and China in October 1949. In their modern incarnation, both nations were first headed by socialistic leaders (Nehru and Mao) who fumbled with their economies.
4. The father of modern China - Sun Yat Sen, was born only 3 years before Mahatma Gandhi - father of modern India.
5. In both the nations, the biggest chunk of the population and historic empires were concentrated in north/east. However, in the modern era the economic forces have shifted towards south
   

1. 
   

 What should everyone know about Chinese history?

Conflicts:

1. India and China had their first and only war in 5000 years of coexistence in October 1962. It was a two week long war, when our border forces clashed in the Himalayas. Although India didn't lose any territory in the resounding defeat (the only military defeat that modern India has faced so far), the war opened India's minds to building a strong military force with nuclear capabilities. China made a quick retreat as US was ready to use its nuclear weapons in aid of India.
2. Presently there are two main contentious boundaries that India and China have.China and India both claim the shaded regions. While India controls the region on the right (Arunachal Pradesh), China controls the region on the West that is a pat of Kashmir.

1. 
   
   
2. China is mainly divided into provinces (where Han Chinese are predominant) and autonomous regions that have significant non-Han population and have extremely rugged terrain.They also include in their map a few territories owned/claimed by India (in blue shade).
   

1. 
   

India and China have a signficant scope for collaboration as both nations are threatened by global terrorism, piracy and oil imports.

The future of both countries depend on how the dragon and elephant are able to get along with each other.

some perspective needed on size here. Xinjiang and Tibet constitute 1/3rd of China's total land mass with just 3-4% of its total population. i am puzzled that India would venture to call China as "chin" after the Qin dynasty. this dynasty lasted just 15 years till 206 B.C. and was definitely not its most glorious empire. the Han dynasty that followed Qin lasted about 200 years and this is the reason that the Chinese like to call themselves "Han" and not Qin. (the idea that the Chinese belong to one single race is in any case an artificial construct, concocted towards the end of the 19th century)

still more unbelievable is the claim that China would call India Tianzhu which as you say means heaven. Chinese called their land the Middle Kingdom or the land under Heaven. their attitude towards all other lands was condescending to say the least and contemptuous at worst, as obvious from their maps going back to the 6th century B.C. i can't write too much here, this requires a fairly long explanation. anybody interested in knowing more can read British academic Martin Jacques' renowned book "When China Rules the World".

Thanks for Reading